Should our pubs be open all hours?

Yes... says Selby Labour MP John Grogan

The main reason for reforming the licensing laws is to create a more sensible way of managing our drinking culture, and to try to reduce crime.

That is why the reforms were backed by police forces up and down the country, including in York, when first proposed and debated.

A more relaxed approach to licensing hours will lead to more sensible way of dealing with drinking.

At the moment we have large numbers of people coming out onto the street all at exactly the same time.

That half hour around 11pm is the time when most towns and cities probably experience 50 per cent of all their violent crime.

That doesn't make sense.

In the Isle of Man, they reformed their licensing laws in a similar way to what we will have in England next year, and rates of drunken violence have been cut by 50 per cent as a result of the more relaxed approach.

Ours is just about the only country in the whole of Europe where, at the moment, you cannot get a drink in a pub after 11pm.

I can remember leaders in the Evening Press a few years ago talking about how visitors to York were incredulous that they couldn't get a drink in the city after 11pm unless they went to a nightclub and paid inflated prices.

The new act, however, is not just about allowing pubs to open whenever they want.

I don't think there will be hundreds of pubs opening 24 hours a day. That's not how things will work.

I don't think many people fully appreciate that under the new Act, licensing will be run by local councils - not, any longer, by magistrates. That in itself is good from the public point of view.

People find it easier to complain to their local council than go to a solicitor and then take matters to court: so concerns about drunken rowdiness will be easier to deal with.

Pubs won't be able to just open for longer at will. They will have to make a case for having extended hours and if there are objections councils will have to consider them, taking into account a number of factors including the protection of children, nuisance to neighbours and public order.

These will be grounds for turning down applications.

I acknowledge that in some ways there has been a bit of a change in climate recently, and increasing concerns about underage drinking. But under the terms of the new act there will be quite extensive powers for councils to deal with this.

For example, licensees will be under much more of an obligation to check that they are not serving people under age.

The police will also have far more powers. If there is a problem they will be able to close a pub down for 24 hours while they investigate.

So this isn't a charter for increased levels of drunkenness.

It is a sensible measure to extend licensing hours to avoid that problem of people all spilling out on to the streets at the same time, while at the same time giving local authorities and the police greater powers to control pubs that may be causing some problems.

No... says Tom Holvey, city councillor

MOST of the complaints I receive from local residents are about anti-social behaviour and, in many cases, these problems are alcohol-related.

As local authorities prepare to become the licensing authority, we have a very real opportunity to tackle this growing problem.

Tessa Jowell herself stated that "licensing authorities will have a clear responsibility to promote the prevention of crime and disorder, and the prevention of public nuisance".

However, this attitude does not square well with what is, in reality, a convoluted and confused act of Parliament.

Irresponsible drinking fuelled by cheap alcohol, happy hours and underage sales are causing serious problems particularly, but not exclusively, in the town centre at weekends.

I enjoy nights out in the city centre and ever since I first came to York five years ago I have found York a very welcoming place with a lively and enjoyable nightlife.

But increasingly the centre on a weekend night is an unfriendly and intimidating place - and that's to me, a 24 year old bloke.

The centre could be a very threatening place to older residents and tourists. We do not want to hand over our city centre nightlife to alcohol-fuelled yobs.

But, with the advent of the licensing act and the possibility of 24-hour drinking, we face new problems. The pressures on police caused by drink-related disorder already divert resources away from other requests for assistance.

The Metropolitan Police produced a report that raised the very real fears that varied closing hours will encourage people to go out later and force the police to patrol trouble spots throughout the night, further reducing the police's ability to act effectively in other areas.

It added that allowing pubs and clubs to "open all hours" could lead to a rise in violent crime, disorder and nuisance.

It also has to be noted that 24-hour opening is not the answer to all our drink related problems. Britain has a very different drinking culture to much of the world, and especially to the Continent.

Countries that have a similar culture and have then moved to more relaxed licensing laws have quickly learnt from the lesson. The Republic of Ireland relaxed its laws only to revert to its previous position within five years.

Ireland experienced a rise in alcohol-related crime and, perhaps what finally swung the argument, a decrease in tourism.

Temple Bar in Dublin became the Mecca for British stag-and-hen parties.

Although they represented less than two per cent of the Dublin tourist market, their all-night drunken behaviour put off 13 per cent of visitors.

This resulted in a net loss of £57 million a year or around £285 million during the five year period. This is surely a lesson that we in York need to learn from.

What the new licensing authorities need is the ability to make decisions at a local level to address local needs.

This includes, where appropriate, additional powers to limit the opening hours of bars, pubs and clubs and the opportunities for binge drinking caused by happy hours.

The Liberal Democrats in York are not convinced that the new Act will give us the powers that we will need to be able to do this effectively.

That is why we would like a wider debate open to all stakeholders to find suitable solutions to this problem.

Tom Holvey is the Liberal Democrat councillor for Dringhouses and Woodthorpe ward

Updated: 09:56 Wednesday, May 12, 2004