Will longer pub hours lead to rise in problem drinking?

CONSERVATIVE leader Michael Howard has called for the introduction of late-night drinking to be delayed after fears it could lead to more crime and violence.

Pubs across York and throughout the country have been applying to open later when the licensing changes come into force in November.

But the proposed extension in drinking hours has been branded "lunacy" by a senior judge, while police chiefs warn British towns could turn into infamous holiday party spots such as Faliraki in Greece.

A paper from the Council of Her Majesty's Circuit Judges said: "Those who routinely see the consequences of drink-fuelled violence in offences of rape, grievous bodily harm and worse on a daily basis are in no doubt that an escalation of offences of this nature will inevitably be caused by the relaxation of liquor licensing which the Government has now authorised."

Ministers have argued that later licenses will encourage more sensible drinking and cut crime by stopping revellers spilling out on to the street at the same time.

However, both arguments have been rejected by the Association of Chief Police Officers. Meanwhile, Judge Charles Harris QC, a member of the Council of Circuit Judges, said creating longer opening hours would be "close to lunacy".

"We have said that the Act should not be brought into effect until binge drinking has been brought under control," Mr Howard told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"I'm afraid we are a very long way from doing that."

The British Beer and Pub Association has dismissed warnings from the judges and the Association of Chief Police Officers as "old comments".

They were sent to ministers at the start of the year "at the height of the fears about 24-hour licensing", the association's chief executive Rob Hayward said.

"Predictions that pubs will be open for 24 hours were wide of the mark, and have not been borne out by the trend in applications," he said.

"Applications for extended hours are generally for an extra hour or so on a Friday and Saturday night, from community pubs, and not from city centre locations."

However, Judge Harris said the amounts people drank for leisure were "quite astonishing" and could not be changed overnight.

"The trouble is, continental-style drinking requires continental-style people, who sit quietly drinking away at cafe tables, not standing up shouting at each other in crowded bars trying to consume gallons of beer at a time," he told Today.

So will longer licensing hours fuel more drunken crime and hooliganism? Or will they turn us into a nation of more sensible drinkers?

We asked a retired York magistrate and a local publican for their views....

Yes... says retired York magistrate and former member of the licensing committee Graeme Robertson.

I DO share some of the concerns of the judge (Charles Harris QC) who has said he fears 24-hour drinking will lead to an increase in alcohol-fuelled aggression and violence.

There does seem to be, among certain people, this heavy-drinking culture that says you must drink as much as you can as quickly as you can.

If you are under 25, for example, you go out with the specific aim of getting plastered. I heard about some young people who are waiting for their 'A'-level results which come out soon. Half intend to get plastered to celebrate their success - and the other half to drown their sorrows.

That kind of attitude towards drinking does worry me, because as the judge said, alcohol fuels violence. The more alcohol you take in, the less able you are to control your behaviour.

So I would support the views of those who fear that there is potentially going to be more anti-social behaviour, violence and possibly more alcohol-fuelled crime as a result of longer opening hours.

What really worries me is what happens when you mix that alcohol with drugs. From my experience as a magistrate, it is clear that a high percentage of cases that appear in court these days are related to drugs. Add drugs to greater access to alcohol, and goodness knows what it going to happen.

Talking about York becoming another Ibiza in terms of its drinking culture might be exaggerating a little, but already I don't feel entirely comfortable when I go out in York after 10pm.

I don't feel physically threatened: but it is not pleasant.

It would be a shame if that were to become even worse. It may be that as a result of the extended hours, people of my generation going out at 9-10pm may not notice it. But that does not mean that at 2-3am there won't be problems. Will pubs be vying to be the last ones open?

It does strike me as odd that so much attention is devoted to warning about the harmful effects of smoking, and yet heavy drinking seems to be condoned. Tobacco smoke is not the only substance which is abused.

Alcohol is too.

Having a glass of wine in the evening is one thing. But if you're going out and regularly having ten pints of beer, that's not going to do you much good. It is going to put a lot of strain on your liver for a start.

And yet a lot of people in a certain age group are doing that now. I worry that this might encourage them even more.

Now that licensing has been taken over by local authorities, councillors who serve on licensing committees are really going to have to take responsibility for the consequences of granting extensions. In the past, it was magistrates who got criticised. Now local authorities will have to be prepared for some criticism too.

No ...says James Butler, operations manager of York Brewery, who oversees three city centre pubs.

I HAD a group of Australians in the Three Legged Mare the other night, all cricketers aged between 30-60, and they just couldn't understand our licensing laws. It was 11pm and they asked if they could stay longer and I had to look at them and say no. I said come back in November and you'll be able to, but at the moment, no.

That was 40 or so people, just enjoying a beer, not getting drunk or rowdy.

York is not going to change into Ibiza overnight just because of a change in the licensing hours. People only have so much money to spend, and they will spend that amount whatever the hours. You've always been able to get drunk if you want to. You can drink at home if that's what you really want.

Yes, there is binge drinking in certain areas, but that's not what the new licensing rules are all about. The problem is caused by the "three-for-one" offers - not the drinking hours.

People say that on the Continent, people drink differently to the way we do here. There is a culture difference, it's true, because being able to drink when they want is not special the way it is to us.

The effect of extending the drinking hours here will be to spread out people's drinking. People will be able to drink when they want to and when it suits them. We will become more like people on the Continent in terms of our drinking habits.

The old licensing laws are outdated. They were introduced during the First World War, so that munitions workers didn't turn up for work drunk in the morning. But lifestyles have changed. We shouldn't be a nanny state. It should be up to the individual when they drink - and up to the licensee to be responsible.

If they are not responsible, then their licence should be taken off them. But nobody is going to be open 24 hours. There may be a few places to start with, but that won't last. It's not cost effective.

We've applied to stay open until 1pm. That doesn't mean that is how long we will stay open every night. It just means that if we have 20-30 people in at 11pm and they are having a nice time, we can carry on until midnight. And if everyone is still enjoying themselves, we can carry on a bit longer. It will mean people aren't rushing to get that last drink.

That's how it works in Edinburgh now, and it doesn't cause problems there. I go regularly, and it is fine. I think that once the new hours come in, in a few months time we'll be looking back and saying why didn't we do this ten or 20 years ago? It is a good move.

Updated: 09:55 Thursday, August 11, 2005